Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Assalamu alaikum. And welcome back to IM and Amana.
Dear host Safiya and I am here to discuss a delicate but important topic.
First of all, before we get straight into the conversation, I wanted to give the viewers a trigger warning and a disclaimer. For this week's episode, I will be discussing childhood sexual abuse or just sexual abuse in general.
So I'm just gonna get straight into it.
When I first planned this episode, it was, you know, it was gonna be an interview style episode. But today I'm gonna do this episode alone because we had to change a couple of things around. One of our guests wasn't able to join us anymore because of, you know, the heaviness of this conversation. First I was gonna reschedule and just do it another time, but you know, we don't know if there's gonna be another time. And because my guest wasn't able to do it, this just goes to show me that how tough this topic is, right people, it's not just like a one time thing that happens to people.
It's something that the effects carry on for a lifetime.
I just wanted to discuss it not from a per, like a professional lens. And I don't have answers for people that you're probably gonna have more questions than answers by the end of the episode, but just to start the conversation right. I don't see a lot of spaces where this topic is discussed and especially in like Muslim settings or some other settings or just in general a lot of settings.
And this idea of this topic came to me back in November right when the whole situation with the ship was going on. I remember I watched a live one time with Village Auntie on Instagram and Dr. Mariam Schevani where they talked about we can't be reactive every time something happens. We can't just respond and then never discuss this topic again. We have to be preventative before things happen. We have to educate our communities, educate our children, educate ourselves so that when these cases do come up, we know how to respond the right way. Right.
So I was thinking about it and I was like, growing up, I've never seen this topic discussed in like, you know, like in my family and the masjid in my communities.
So I would oc like on like different talk shows on the news, things like that. But it's one thing to see other people talk about it and then it's one thing to see someone who looks like you discussing, you know, So I just wanted to bring light to this topic. I'm pretty sure I still will need, like, professionals. So this is not a one time conversation. This is, this is a topic that I want to bring back a couple of more times and like, involve the community and other people who are open to discussing it. But for today, I'll try to do this topic justice.
And yeah, if I have any shortcomings, please forgive me. I'm trying to do my best. And it's also like a sensitive topic for me too, and I feel a little bit uncomfortable. But I'm gonna challenge myself too, because this is what this podcast is about. You know, this is what this platform is about. I can't, I can't ask guests to come on here and share their stories or talk about, you know, uncomfortable things if me as a host can do it as well.
So, yeah, this is my first solo episode. And welcome. And let's get straight into it. So first of all, what is sexual abuse? I looked online and the definition that came up for me was any unwanted or non consensual sexual act or behavior that is forced upon a person. It includes actions where someone uses power manipulation, coercion or force to violate another person's boundary. And then another definition is when someone touches, talks to, exposes, or involves another person in sexual behavior without their full, informed and willing consent. Especially when the victim is a child, vulnerable or unable to consent when it involves a child. A child can never give consent to any sexual activity, even if they don't say no or seem confused.
Sexual abuse of a child includes any sexual contact, exposure, or grooming by an adult, older child, or authority figure.
And for the viewers, I just wanted to know that. I just wanted you guys to know that abuse is never the victim's fault, regardless of what they wore, said or did.
And sexual abuse can happen to anyone, whether it's a child, teen, adult, regardless of their gender or background.
And it can be done by strangers or people the victim knows, including family members, teachers, religious leaders or peers. So when I first planned out, like the outline of this episode, I had questions for the gifts and then, yeah, I'm, I'm just gonna like, bypass all those and then kind of turn the camera or the mic on me and just discuss it from my perspective. So I remember when I did my first, like my opening episode, one of the things that I said on there was that the reason I started this podcast was because of representation, right? Growing up, like when I would watch the Oprah Winfrey show or different talk shows like, you know, the Tyra bank show or Dr. Phil or things like that, seeing people who are the same race as me sharing their stories of abuse or just like anything, you know, divorce or family problems, it let me know that it helping to not personalize anything, right?
To see that there are other people outside in this world who also go through similar experiences, it kind of put into perspective that anything that I experience is not my fault. Right?
And I remember when I was in high school, I. I was on YouTube and I found there was a video that Somali woman named.
She posted online.
And she just discussed her, like, her me too story.
And I was intrigued by it because I've never seen anything like this. You know, I've seen other races talk about the other ethnicities talk about it, but I've never seen someone from my own ethnicity or my own religion speak on this topic. And I was. I was just like, I saved it and I put it in my watch later to come back for it another time.
And then years later, I went back on. I remembered the video and then I went back, but it was. It was like it was completely off the Internet. So I.
I went on Facebook and I looked for her. I found her. And like a couple of years later, I saw a post where she said that she had removed that video because she received so much attacks, you know, just because she had the audacity to share her own story. And that always stuck with me because, first of all, it takes a lot for someone to even come out and share their story, you know, so to see someone be met with so much, like, harshness and just like, abuse, it was. It was crazy to me because it let me know just how much or how far people are willing to go to shame someone into silence, you know, and to retract their stories even though they're not at home.
And people, instead of taking the anger out on the perpetrator, the victim is always like, the victim's the one who's always harmed, you know, which doesn't make any sense. And it just started making me question, like, you know, as Muslims, where did that thinking even come from?
Like, how can.
How can we watch someone's rights be imposed on. How can we watch someone be harmed and then blame the per. Like the victim instead of holding the perpetrator to account, you know, in any. In any, like, like, rulings or any time in history or like, even, like, stories within Islam, you know, or anytime in history when someone does wrong, they're met with. They're supposed to be met with that same judgment. You know, our dean believes in an eye for an eye, but you can Also choose to forgive if you want even something as, I don't know, minor or major as gossip, right? Or backbiting or slander, you impose upon someone's right.
So on judgment day, you have the right to forgive them or not.
So I don't get why, like, people won't critically think about if someone was abused or someone was harmed. And if something as small as gossip is punished, how would something as major as abuse not be, like, you know, met with the same punishment or judgment?
I don't know if I'm making sense to anyone, but just. It just goes to show that sometimes people will weaponize religion just to silence people, you know, out of their stories. Also act religious in the same voice and try to use religion, silence someone, but not so empower someone or to seek justice for someone. And years later, you know, I see. I've seen that a lot.
You know, whether it's in the US Whether it's back home, we see that a lot where someone shares their story and they're met with more vitriol than the actual perpetrator.
So I wanted to use this platform to also be that person who, like, another girl sees, another high school girl sees another young adult sees or older woman, and she can see herself represented and she can see someone else speaking on what they've been through and know that you're not alone. And this is not your shame to carry. This is not your fault. And you may not receive justice in this world, but there will come a day when you do receive justice.
So whether you choose to forgive or not, that's your choice. And yeah, I think this episode, I think this episode definitely Requires a Part 2 where I can interview guests. But for now, I want to actually share. I want to be vulnerable and actually share my own story with the guests and the viewers. I remember when I interviewed Hussain and Oba, I thanked them at the end of the episode and I was like, you know, you guys inspired me to share my story one day and I didn't think it would happen this soon. I know a couple of months ago I was speaking with my therapist and she said, you know, maybe it's going to happen sooner than you expect. Maybe it may happen this summer or not. And I was like, no, that is not happening. You know, but, yeah, we're here.
Maybe the guests had to cancel so that this can happen. You know, we plan, but allies, the greater, the greatest planner.
And yeah, I guess we're. I guess we're here. So I'm just gonna get straight to it and Answer these questions.
So the first question I had written out was, can you share as much or as little as you feel safe about your experience and when you re. When you first realized it was abuse? I'm not going to go too into detail, you know, since other people are involved in the story and like, you know, the legalities of naming names and things like that. But I would say in 10th grade, I've had my own running or my own, you know, like, I never knew of what grooming was, right? I never had the vocabulary for even what sexual abuses or sexual trauma or sexual violence. So when. While. When the grooming process was happening, I guess that's what it would be called. You know, the person acting like close to you and earning your trust and then slowly and slowly breaking your boundaries, right? Until you get comfortable enough to trust them. And then by the time the abuse begins, you're blaming yourself for it because it's like it was my fault. I trusted this person. You know, I would say that happened for like a month, and it was at school, so I'll say that much.
It was the first month, September 2009, and then by October, you know, it was.
That's when it actually, that's when it first began.
And I realized it was abuse because it was never consented.
And I just didn't think.
When I was 15, I was like, oh, maybe, you know, this person has a crush on me, whatever.
But I realized that it wasn't a crush when I realized nothing was consented. You know, it wasn't anything I consented to. And I know that if two people, like, have a. Like have a crush on each other or whatever, anything that happens is consented. I didn't know the word consent, but I just knew both people agree.
You know, it's not one person imposing their self on another person, whether it's through touch or not. And I went online one day to just look for the word to describe this. You know, I didn't. I knew I wanted to tell someone, but I just didn't have the words for it.
So I went on. I was at home, I went on Google and the word I found was like sexual harassment or something.
It didn't quite match, but that's what I was most comfortable sharing with someone, you know.
So I messaged one of my older cousins and I kind of let her know what was happening, but not too much because I could sense that she was getting angry, you know.
So I just.
I just kind of cut the story short because I didn't want to make her mad, you know, or feel disappointed in me, that I. I just perceived myself as being weak, you know, like, why am I letting this happen to me? This is not who I am, you know, like, why am I letting this slide?
So once I could hear her getting angry, I was like, yeah, it's not that bad. You know, I just downplayed it. And she said to me, basically, you know, the next time it happens, just say, like, stop.
You know? And that kind of, like, drew me deeper into shame, because what I internalized it as was, it's my responsibility to just make it stop, you know? And then after that, I just. I didn't bring it back up to her. And then she did reach out to me again. I was like, hey, like, what happened?
Did it stop? Whatever? And I just lied about it. And I was like, yeah, it stopped because to me, I already internalized it, right? To me, I felt like I was embarrassed, and I felt weak, and I just didn't know how to come back to her and tell her, no, it's still going on, you know?
And I didn't want it to be a.
I didn't want for her to make it a bigger deal because I wasn't ready for that at the time, when I was 15, 16 years old.
So I never brought it up again.
And it continued for maybe, I don't know, nine. Nine months of the school year. And I'm gonna go straight to the second question is, how did the abuse affect your sense of safety, identity, or body? Growing up, it completely disconnected me from my body, you know, while it was happening. I remember I would just disassociate from myself, so I don't feel any emotions. And now, at my age, I still struggle with that. Like, anytime I feel uncomfortable, anytime I feel anxious, I just withdraw inside, you know, and completely just disassociate from myself. And. And I don't know. That's something I've always struggled with, regardless of how much therapy I.
I've done. But, yeah, my sense of safety, I would say it completely disrupted my sense of safety in high school. It disrupted my sense of safety.
I just stopped trusting everyone. Someone could even be a safe person, a safe adult, a safe friend, you know, I just did not feel safe at all. And as an adult, I think, like, I'm kind of paranoid compared to other people. When I'm in public, I'm always aware of my surroundings. I'm always scanning the area for what's going on. I read too much into things just to feel a sense of Safety. Right. I think other people are more comfortable outside and just doing things on their own and like traveling and a lot of things just make me paranoid, to be honest, because I'm always trying to be one step ahead and trying to protect myself, you know. But yeah, I try to do a lot of grounding work now and breathing work and like affirming myself and letting myself know like I'm safe, this person is safe, you know, a lot of people protect me and if anything happens now, I can hold people accountable. I can't speak up for myself and just letting myself know that I can enjoy life, you know, that happened. But I can still take up space and just create my own sense of safety within my body and my relationships. Okay, so how did it affect my sense of identity?
I think it definitely affected my self esteem and my self worth because I always, always ask, why me?
What is it about me that drew this to me?
Because I didn't see it happening to nobody else, you know, so it's like what, what made this happen to me?
Am I, is it my personality? Is it because I'm introverted? Do I present as weak when I go outside? So that's why I was targeted. I never had an answer, so. Well, now I know it's not because of me, it's because of the person, you know. So I stopped internalizing it and it doesn't affect my identity too much anymore because I know it's not my fault, you know, how did it affect my body?
I would say it absolutely made me hate living and existing within this body because I felt like this was the body that brought me my problems. You know, I remember when it first, like when in high school I used to struggle with food a lot because I just, I use it as a source of comfort and my weight is always fluctuating. So I know when I gain a lot of weight it's probably because I'm emotionally eating and I just, I just use it as a source of comfort, you know, so that I used to think, oh, maybe if I gain weight it's going to draw attention away from me.
But now I know it has nothing to do with attraction. Is actually an abuse of power that perpetrators use over their victims.
And that also helped me know that, you know, my body is in a mana that I must take care of and that I can't harm myself because of someone else's actions.
What were some of the silent messages you internalized as a result? Result of the abuse? I guess the most frequent one was that it was my Fault. And I bring it upon myself because I trusted someone.
But now I know that abusers seek out their victims. You know, it's not nothing that I could have done to bring it upon myself.
So, yeah. Did anyone believe you or support you when you first.
Yeah, my cousin definitely did believe me. She didn't not believe me. And her way of supporting me was coming back and checking up on me. But, you know, because I wasn't comfortable with that, I just completely shut it down.
And I remember years later. Well, it was actually not years later. Like a year later when I saw my cousin again. And because of all the shame I internalized, I wasn't able to have the same relationship with her anymore. You know, I just always felt like she.
Because I was vulnerable and gave her the opportunity, the opportunity to see my truth, that I couldn't be myself around her anymore. And I just felt, like, disgusting. And, I don't know, whenever I would be around her, I just did the most to hide and be invisible because it reminded me of my story, you know, and even years later, it's what, 15, 16 years later.
And I still have that type of dynamic with my cousin where it's very uncomfortable at times because we never have the conversation again. And sometimes I just wonder, like, what she thinks or if she still remembers or if she views me any differently. I'm sure she doesn't, but it's just messages that I internalize, you know, And I hope that I can change my relationship with or that anytime that I do share my story, even now, that it doesn't impact my relationships with my loved ones in a negative way or make things awkward.
And even if it does, I'm older now, and I can work through those feelings, you know? How did the abuse impact your relationship with family, community, or religion? I would say because of the messages I internalized.
I think that impacted my relationship with my family and religion more.
I used. I know, like in 10th grade, I completely withdrew. You know, I became so quiet. And I always used to wonder if anyone noticed. Did anyone see. Did anyone see changes in my behavior? Behavior? And if they did, I wonder why nobody asked, like, are you okay? What's going on?
Nowadays when there's children around me who I see do like.
Like, withdraw or their behavior completely changes in a short period of time, you know, the family does like more to ask them now, hey, are you okay? Maybe because we're older now, you know, the millennials are adults now, and we can be that safe space for kids. But I think growing up with Gen X adults or elders, we.
We just. We were not talked to. We were not talked to about emotions or anything happening at school, anything happened with friends, none of that. So I will say it impacted my relationship with my family because it just made me so angry that my change of behavior wasn't questioned, you know, and it took me a lot of years to work through that anger.
I'm not angry anymore because I know it wasn't anyone's responsibility for anyone's fault. I wasn't anyone's fault. So it's easier to forgive now.
And see, I remember in 2017, I talked to my aunt about this about, like, my anger, you know, and it was hard for me to forgive.
And she just said to me, you know, Sophia, you didn't. You didn't give anyone the opportunity to see what they would do if you didn't tell them, you know, so forgive yourself for, like, internalizing it, for holding your story, and then also forgive your family for that anger that you have. So, yeah.
How did it impact my relationship with religion?
I think that. I think religion is what impacted the most because, well, in 10th grade, when it did begin, I turned to religion. You know, I turned to Allah because I needed answers and I needed help for this to stop. You know, I'll pray to God every day that when I go back to school that I'm safe, that nothing happens or that, you know, the boy gets switched to a new school or just something. Like, I remember when I was 15 or 16, my. My older sister's friend was at the house, and I overheard her saying, you know, if you want Allah to answer your duas, you have to get up the last third of the night and ask him, you know, and at the time, I didn't know that this was tehedric.
So I would set my alarm every night. I would set my alarm 2:00am, you know, every full night and just wake up and pray to God and ask, like, ask him, like, can you please help? Like, help me. Can you please make this stop?
I don't want to go back to school anymore.
Can he go to a different school? Can I get switched to a different school? Something, you know, and by the grace of God, the next school year, he did go to a different school. And, yeah, that's. So in the beginning, religion is what helped me in a way because I had someone to vent to, someone to pray to, someone to speak to, you know, but later on, the older I got, I started feeling angry about, why did Allah allow this to happen? You know, why me?
And just yeah, there were so many years where I was angry with God because I didn't understand what the purpose of this trauma was, what the purpose of this pain was. And I still don't know, but maybe my life and my story will be used to help other people. I don't know.
But I don't know. Maybe there is the answer to why this. This happens or the purpose of it. But. 2021, after kind of hitting my rock bottom, you know, I went to my aunt again.
So in 2017, when I first went to my aunt, she told me she could help me get therapy. And I told her I wasn't interested because, I don't know, I just always was. I always looked down on it, and I was too embarrassed about it, you know, So I told her. She said to me, when you're ready, just let me know. I'm going to help you with the process.
And then I didn't come back until 2021 after completely hitting my rock bottom during COVID and I went back to her house, and I talked to her, and she just basically said, what's going on? You know, you're either like, you can't keep going this direction. Other things I was struggling with. She's like, you can't keep going this direction. You're either gonna have to seek God or seek therapy.
Either. Either one. You have to do something. You can't keep going down this direction, you know?
So I wasn't ready to turn back to religion yet because. Well, to turn back to, like, God yet, because I was still angry, you know, And I said to her, I'll look into therapy. And she.
She told. Yeah, Afterwards, I talked with my doctor, and then she helped me find a therapist. June 2022. I mean, January 2022. And since then, I've been doing the work for the past three years. And it's the greatest thing I've ever done in my life because I finally don't have to hold in anymore, you know, And I have safe people that I can talk to who give me different perspectives and just pull me out of my shame. Whenever I'm triggered again, I have a safe person to speak to.
And because I've learned how to talk about it and heal, it helped me come back to it, helped me get rid of my anger that I had toward God, you know, and let me know that Allah is not at fault, but the person who did the action, you know, he gave us free will.
And sometimes people use their free will to harm people, but they will be held accountable. And that Just gives me a sense of peace for now. So yeah, that's how it impacted my relationship with religion.
First I used religion to help me and then the older I got, the more I turned away until I hit rock bottom and then came back to religion to help me.
And then when I say come back, I don't mean like I left the religion but more so like engaging in certain haram things because I thought it would bring me a sense of closure, you know. And no amount of haram can heal anything in you. It just completes you. It just completely turns you away from yourself until you become so disconnected from yourself and you realize, wow, like my answers were not in this action, you know, and I'm not going to disclose too much of my like, like what I engaged in, but just the general, you know, answer. So now I'm going to get into the themes of mental and emotional health.
What long term effects did you notice in your emotional well being or behavior?
I feel like I used to be very joyful, very carefree, very trusting and now I'm the complete opposite.
Like the last time I really was my full self was probably at age 14 and for the past 15, 16 years that person is gone. I will say that abuse completely changes a person and it affected my emotional well being because I'm always, I feel like I'm always on a roller coaster.
Not a roller coaster. I would say my baseline changed.
So my baseline used to be just a baseline of joy and now I feel like numb and I have moments of joy.
So yeah, it, miss it kind of also being like numb and disconnected from myself also messes with my like memory and sense of time.
A lot of time can pass and I'm just like what happened last week? Not that's not even a lot of times, a short period of time. Just like what happened last week. I was probably using the time to manage my emotions, you know. Yeah, it definitely affected my emotional well being and behavior and I'm always finding different ways to feel better, be better and seek healing and.
Yeah.
How does shame or guilt show up for you and how have you learned to navigate those feelings?
I think the worst emotion in this world personally, I think is shame. I wrote many poems and pieces, like writings about the feeling of shame and how it just, it's so harmful. It's harmful to people individually, it's harmful to families, it's harmful to society. It just, it makes you. Shame makes you. I guess I just feel like shame is so harmful and deadly because it makes you live your life in a hole. It makes you disconnected from others and yourself and your creator. And I. I don't know. This is kind of tough for me to answer, but I just hate the emotion of shame because I think it wasted. I think it took so many years for me.
And yeah, I'll try to get back to this question later, but for now I can't really get that deep into it.
The next question is, what coping mechanisms did you develop, healthy or unhealthy to survive? Some of the unhealthy coping mechanisms early on was, you know, my relationship with food and just using it to feel better.
That's when I was like younger and I still struggle with that. But it's better now, I've learned. In 2022, I took a course with help of and I. It helped me really improve my relationship with food and just eating for nourishment and enjoyment but not to like, fulfill myself emotionally. Right.
I'll still have my snacks here and there, but it's not to fix.
It's not. I don't eat as a form of a coping mechanism anymore.
Another coping mechanism, my favorite, before I saw any therapy or anything, was writing. I have journals that I date, like 2009, 2010, and I probably have like five, six journals that I've kept and like wrote throughout my life. And I've composed over like 500 poems over the past 10 years just to get all these emotions out of my body. Right. And out of my mind and so that I'm not holding it in anymore.
And alhamdulillah, I was able to keep all my writings and sometimes I do share them online.
I have a poetry page called Love letters to my 20s. So all the poems that I wrote throughout my 20s, that's where I share them. Writing has really helped me a lot to get my thoughts on paper and just to go back years later and like, see my growth documented and witness the things that I used to struggle with, like not bothering me anymore. That has really helped me a lot. And I. I would also say social media would be another coping mechanism in healthy and unhealthy ways. So I use it a lot to escape and just, I guess you could say like dead walk and I'm just a doom squirrel. And sometimes I fall back into those patterns. But my lows, ever since I, you know, started doing therapy, my lows are not so low anymore.
So when I catch myself falling back and being triggered again, I do go back to my unhealthy coping mechanisms. But now I'm able to pull myself out of it quicker. Alhamdulillah. My loads are not so low anymore.
And I learned how to, you know, develop safe relationships where I can talk to other people when I'm struggling really bad. I'll probably book, you know, more sessions for therapy, and my therapist, they always help me out.
And now probably sharing, you know, having this podcast and talking to other people that their life stories and sharing mine today, that has helped me a lot as well. How has trauma showing up in your adult life, for example, with intimacy, relationships, and trust? Well, one of. One of the reasons why I did this episode today was because it showed me that effects never leave someone, right?
Even when.
Even with all the healing work one may do, if you are triggered, it can take you back to the time that it happened. You know, it can completely throw up your day, throw off your week, your month, your year, because the triggers, they don't leave. You know, I would say it shows up in intimacy because first off, I don't really trust too much guys like that.
I'm pretty sure there are a lot of men who are safe, but I just.
I just view everyone as a potential perpetrator, you know, which is harmful because, you know, I do would like to be married one day and down that wall, you know, and just learn how to be vulnerable and practice discernment and trust me.
Yeah.
How has trauma shown in my adult life? One thing that I'm realizing is that I've completely built up walls around me that no one can get in, like, no one can get through.
Whether it's a relative, whether it's a friend, or just anyone in general, I do the absolute most to always guard and protect myself, even if it may not be helpful. You know, I just don't want.
I'm afraid of. I'm afraid of trusting and allowing people in, because when I did trust when I was 15 years old, they broke that trust, you know, so. So I have a fear of people getting too close.
You know, I think that's one of the effects of shame, but those are things I'm also working through. Another thing I would say is just struggling with putting up boundaries because my boundaries were broken. So I struggle with, like, conflict and boundaries. And that's something that I'm also working on right now. The past.
Well, this past month, my therapist has been helping me with assertive communication and protecting myself in relationships. Next we're gonna discuss healing.
What was your first step toward healing? Well, I said it earlier. It was when I hit my rock bottom in 2020, and I felt very disconnected. From my religion, from myself, from my body.
And it was time to seek help.
You know, in 2022, I read the book Unbound by Tarana Burke, and she's the creator of the MeToo movement. And after I completed the book, one thing or a message that came up for me was, regardless of how much you try to run from your pain, regardless of how much you try to help others, you're always going to meet yourself at the end. Right. And you can't outrun your pain. It's always going to come back. In relationships and parenting and friendships, it will always come back.
So I know in the future I want to do work where I do help people, but how can I do that if I haven't even helped my own self?
So that's. After I read that book, I was like, oh, yeah, I definitely need to take this healing work serious. And in February, 2022 is when I worked with my therapist, Jennifer. And in July, I worked with my other one. I transitioned to my other one named Buffy. And now I'm working with another one named Cicely. And they have helped me a lot, like, with my self image and, like, naming my emotions and responding to them in a healthy way and knowing that it's capable, that I'm capable of healing and leading a joyful life and that my story doesn't have to take over my life, you know, so. Yeah.
Are there. Are there moments you felt like you reclaimed your voice or body with this episode?
When I perform my poetry, I definitely feel like I'm reclaiming my voice. Each time I sense a danger or I have that gut feeling where someone might be, you know, unsafe person. And before, I was sitting it and just forced myself to deal with it.
Nowadays, if I see something, I remove myself out of certain situations. I.
And I'm proactive in protecting myself. Right. I don't just go with the flow anymore and accept or deal with what comes to me. Yeah.
So that's my way of reclaiming my body, is by educating myself on this topic. And it's been preventative. How has therapy, spirituality, or community played a role in your recovery? Well, we already discussed therapy for spirituality.
I would say for all this therapy I did, I noticed that therapy without spirituality is. It will always be incomplete for me. I need a, like, a greater why to help me answer life's questions and just me personally. Accountability matters to me so much.
People need to be held accountable for what they did, whether it's in this world or the next. And, you know, because of religion, it keeps Me grounded, knowing that someone will be held accountable for the pain that they've caused me and that my pain will not be in vain. And you know, that's the way spirituality has helped me now. It helps me keep going and just remain grounded.
How has community played a role in my recovery?
I would say seeing other Muslim women speak about this topic has helped me a lot.
Seeing that there's people who won't blame you for your story, seeing people who also experience the same thing lets me know I'm not alone. This problem is something that's way bigger than me. I feel like I want to also give back to my community so that I can be that person that, you know, 15 year old me was looking for.
17 year old, 20 year old, 25 year old me was looking for. 28 year old me was looking for. I just want to be that person for someone else.
And maybe me sharing my story will help in my recovery, I guess. What has been the most surprising part of the healing journey?
What has been the most surprising part of the healing journey? I think it would be how easy it is to share once you decide to share, once you become unapologetic.
A coup.
A couple of months ago I shared with one of my cousins and in my mind I always felt like it would be hard. I felt like I would be embarrassed. But talking to her just helped. It let me know that there are people in the world that will not judge and they will be a safe space. And it gives me the courage to share today because seeing the way she responded after I decided disclosed, just let me know that there's probably more safe people than unsafe people. And as long as I have that support, then I'll be good, you know. Another surprising part would be how helpful it is when someone else discloses.
Because I think there's strength in numbers and if we can all come together and not just disclose but also share how we have healed and retained our voices and our bodies, I think it's going to help the next person help heal themselves. You know, at the end of the day, no one can fix this pain in us. But just sharing stories and being represented, that does a lot. It does a lot more than you know, what boundaries have you had to set to protect your peace and healing? This is something that I still am working through in real time, but I would say not going back to old places and old people who have harmed me, believing that I can reclaim my power by putting myself in those settings, you know, I'm not going to get too deep into that, but that would be one example. And just, I guess being mindful of the messages that I expose myself to on social media, I don't really subscribe to, like, the red pill beliefs or anytime there's like, cases going on, whether it's like with the whole Diddy stuff, with the whole like some years ago, the whole R. Kelly stuff, and everything that just goes on while it's trending, I don't expose myself to it.
There's certain conversations I don't want to have, I will not join. There's certain debates that I'm not willing to get into. And that, that's. That's been my way of protecting my piece and my healing and just making sure that I keep showing up and showing up to my sessions, reading books and continue writing and being a safe space for other women. When they share their stories, I never judge, I don't blame.
And I always let them know that, no, it's their story. They can share it whenever they want. And healing is possible also. Okay, so the next part is breaking the silence. Why is it so hard to talk about childhood sexual abuse in our community?
I think one reason I would say is because of the shame that surrounds it. And another reason I would say is because people have a need to protect perpetrators.
And just like a lot, a lot of it.
Why is it so hard to talk about childhood sexual abuse in our community?
Because I think a lot of people are just uncomfortable with the topic in general, you know, because. Because they're, because of their discomfort. They'd rather just not bring it up. But I think it's really dangerous to not have these conversations because perpetrators thrive where there's silence, you know, or whether it's ignorance. And we're not doing anyone a favor when we are silent about these type of topics. Next question. What would you say to someone who is still living with this secret?
Well, first I would say that this isn't your secret because you're not the one who did something wrong. You know, this is wrong that was done to you.
And I guess something I would say is it wasn't your fault. I think everyone who is going, who experiences this, that's the first thing they do. They blame theirselves.
I just would. I would just say that it's not your fault, it's not your shame to carry, and that you can get through this even though it's. It's really hard and, you know, the effects of it will show up in your life a lot.
But I don't want to be. I. I Also don't want to be like, you know, toxic positivity. I don't want to practice that. So I would just. I would just let you know that your pain matters.
So it is your healing, your voice matters, your life matters, and it was never your fault, regardless of what angle you can look at it through.
And I just hope that you can forgive yourself and allow yourself or give yourself permission to keep living.
There will be tough days.
There will be easier days.
There will be days when you don't want to get out of bed. There will be days where you're just. You don't.
You know, you may not want to live.
There may be days where you're just asking yourself, why did this happen?
And you may not, you know, ever see. You may not ever find the answers. But I would say that life can be better.
And there were times where I didn't know that I was. I didn't know there would ever be a day where I was speaking on this topic, you know, because it just. The shame just ate me up, and I. I feel like I'm finally on the other side, to be honest. I feel like I've grown a lot. I've done a lot of work.
What do you wish more people understood about survivors? I think more people will share their stories if they knew there was a safe person to share it to.
I think everyone just needs that one person who will believe them, who will support. Support them. And after that one person, that one person can turn to 2 or 3 or 4. But one thing I would say is when someone does disclose to you, don't change how you act with them.
Don't act awkward.
Don't expect them to carry your emotions for you. You're gonna have to carry those. You're gonna have to deal with those emotions on your own, because they already have their emotions to deal with. You know, I wish people knew how hard it was to tell anyone. And so when someone does tell you, they have to build up that courage, you know? So I hope that you respond the proper way and just continue to educate yourself and advocate for others who are not able to protect themselves, who are vulnerable. And another thing I wish people will understand is that people need to be pulled out of their holes. People need help feeling empowered. People need to be heard. People need to be listened to. People need to be believed.
And another thing, another major thing I would say is when someone is. Looks like they're doing harmful behavior to themselves, you know, whether it's hypersexuality, whether it's drugs, whether it's like cutting or, you know, like eating problems or like having rebellious behaviors.
Sometimes we don't need. People don't need to view that as bad behavior, but it is a response to what is going on inside of them.
So instead of seeking to judge or to punish, you know, kids or other adults, I think we need to view behaviors as messages and ask people what is going on within them that is causing them to act out this way. I think most times when people are, you know, harming themselves, it's. It's because they're trying to send a message out. It's probably because they, you know, need help or that's probably how they believe they could feel better, you know, so I wish people just look beyond their behavior and look at what message the behavior is standing.
How can families and communities better support surviving by understanding people's silence, understanding their rage, understanding their behaviors, understanding and asking. You know, it doesn't hurt to ask sometimes. Some. A person might not disclose something because they don't feel comfortable, but just ask. That's the way I was able to tell my aunt back in 2017. I didn't tell her nothing. She just asked me.
And because I saw that she was comfortable having this conversation, it made me comfortable have. It made me feel comfortable continuing the conversation, you know, so don't be afraid. I would say this is just my personal advice. Don't be afraid of kind of pushing that boundary and just asking, hey, I see these type of behaviors. Is this what's going on?
And then let the person say yes or no to you, but don't remain silent. You know, how can families and communities better support survivors?
Educate yourself, advocate for those who can't advocate for themselves. And be a safe space. Teach your children about their bodily autonomy, safe touch, you know, what to do when they feel uncomfortable, how to listen to your gut. And also teaching yourself how to respond when someone doesn't disclose to you, and how to just take legal matters if that's what the person chooses to do. I think we need to remember to give people choice and how they want to respond to their own abuse, you know, and not try to force anything on them. How can faith spaces or cultural leaders help dismantle shame and denial?
They should call out things that happen.
I think there should be rules set up for what will happen if someone is, you know, accused of this behavior or found guilty of this behavior.
I think.
I think we need to support victims more and just create, you know, resources and also repercussions for perpetrators and in safe spaces. You know, putting in more effort to seeing who we hire in these spaces, making sure there's background checks, and also educating people. Like, trainings. Whenever you want to work somewhere, just like when you want to chaperone at a school field trip, they make you take trainings. You know, I think we need to do more. Like, I think we need to give more education and hold people accountable as well.
Last section, looking ahead. What is freedom or liberation from trauma look like for you now?
I would say not.
To me, freedom is not blaming myself.
To me, freedom is, I guess I would say, not being, like, so consumed by it that give a. I don't give myself a chance with my future and allowing myself to experience joy again and looking forward to the future and allowing myself to seek, you know, safe relationships and just betting on myself healing, being who I needed, and creating safe spaces. I think that's really important, especially as a woman who's not a mom yet, but I'm around other, you know, teens and younger women. I think everyone needs to have someone who they can go to if something was to happen.
And Alhamdulillah. I had a couple of people throughout my life that I was able to tell things to.
I don't know how it would have been if I had. If I, like, literally had no one.
But I think those little glimpses and moments where I was able to share with people, that's what helped me keep going, you know?
Yeah. How has your experience shaped your purpose or passion today?
Ever since I was 18 years old, when I first, you know, when I was in high school, in my senior year, I was trying to go to college. I was. I became interested in social work. I was interested in helping people with resources and protecting children. And for college, I majored in society, ethics and human behavior with a minor in education and society and health studies as well. Purpose shows up in my degrees because I'm always trying to give back and help others help themselves, you know, while whether it's through a health setting, whether it's through social services, whether it's through a podcast and anything I do. I also love reading because it involves, you know, conversation and curating a safe space and just giving people the opportunity to talk about tough things.
And with this podcast and poetry, I'm always trying to create representation in my work in the future. I wish I can even, even, like, further my education so that I'm able to help people in a more professional way. What advice would you give your younger self if you could go back?
That's a tough one.
What advice would I give myself if I can go back?
The advice I would give myself is that this was never my burden to carry, that it was never my fault, that I have nothing to be ashamed of, that I'm not weak, that there are more safe people around than I can imagine. But because I feel so ashamed, everyone to me might. The potential, you know, through it. So what I told myself was it's easier to just remain silent, you know, But I would tell myself silence has so much repercussions.
There is no safely in silence. There's actually more danger in silence than there is safety. And I would tell myself that tell and keep telling and keep telling till there is nothing left to tell. I wish I allowed myself to be comfortable with my anger more and by rage, because I think there's nothing wrong with righteous anger when used the right way. I think internalizing things led to more isolation and, you know, I don't know, sometimes I would say I would give myself advice and sometimes I. I don't think there is any. There's a purpose of giving myself advice because, you know, life would have happened regardless, you know, I don't know, maybe it would have always took me this long to work through it. Who knows? You know, it happened and alhamdulillah, now, you know, my age, I'm able to. I bet on myself long enough to know that everything did turn out okay and I am okay and my life will be okay and will be amazing and that, you know, someone else's actions will not take away my joy.
And. Yeah, last question. What legacy do you hope to leave for other survivors? Well, I hope to create. I hope to use my platform to help that person who may never feel comfortable speaking out loud, but they're.
They're watching things behind the scenes and they need to hear what I am saying. You know, the same way I watch all the other women on TV and online and I needed to hear their story in order to know that I'm okay and that I will be okay, you know. So my legacy that I hope to leave is one of hope and one of impact and inspiration so that the next girl, the next boy, the next man or woman can take back their life and be who they needed for someone else and to just keep this going.
I think this is something I personally believe. I think trauma comes to us at a young age to completely throw us off, to create harm in society, to destroy families, to destroy relationships.
I want to fight or go against anything that is here to destroy the ummah, to destroy kids adults and I'm just, just ready to join this fight, you know, and help people take back their life. There was a time where I would have never done this because I would have been so afraid of the repercussions of the backlash of hurting, of other people feeling hurt or sad.
But I know that's not my, that's not for me to carry that type of thinking just, you know, it kind of continues, it makes whatever's going on still continue, you know, and perpetrators thrive on that, you know. So yeah, I'm gonna add resources at the ending of like at the bottom of the video and also on my Instagram page so, so that people can, you know, check out resources to help themselves and help their community and children or the children around them.
Because I know when I was going through things, the resources online is what helped me. You know, the Rainn website helped me a lot.
And just talking to my doctor, doctor, I forget her name, I haven't seen her since October. But Valerie, Dr. Valerie, she has helped me a lot by asking the tough questions and you know, connecting me to the proper resources.
So yeah, I thank you guys for joining in on this episode. It was a tough one. I hope you take as many breaks as you need. I hope you self care the way you need. If you want to message me and talk, you can reach, you can reach me on my Instagram TikTok element Amanda or Ellen? Amanda Gmail. And let's do, let's do this work together. Let's create more committees and spaces where these conversations are had and you can. People are given the proper resources, whether it's legal or you know, whatever they need. If this episode moves you, please share it, start the conversation and bring it to your community.
You don't need to be a scholar or leader to protect the child. You just need to be present, informed and willing to speak. Thank you for tuning in to Edmund Amana. This is your host, Sophia.
Follow, subscribe, Like Comment share and I'll see you on our next episode. Thank you.
[01:11:37] Speaker B: Holding.
Holding on to longing.
Holding on to nostalgia.
Holding on to home.
Holding on to grief.
Holding on. Holding on to the memory.
Holding on.
Holding.
Holding on for your life.
Holding on to root.
Holding on to culture.
Holding your breath.
Holding on to faith.
Holding on to God.
Holding.
Holding for the future.
Holding.
Holding on to the Ummah one story at a time.
